Need clarification of what the zone inputs/outputs actually expect

Konnected Alarm Panels
1

I have both the alarm board and an add-on board. I'm struggling to understand how the zones on each can be either input or output, and in each mode, what is the voltage? The simplest case of a sensor that is normally closed and goes open when the sensor is tripped is the easiest to understand.

But now comes a motion detector which I have wired with three wires: red for +12V, white for -12V, and green which returns +12V if and only if there is motion. For this I need a zone to act as a voltage input. Is that possible? Am I going to need a 12V relay to open/close a circuit? [I admit that my assumption in how this works is what led to one of my nodeMCU boards going up in smoke]. 

Then there is the case where I want to drive a bank of eight 5V relays. These relays switch on/off status LEDs, chimes, buzzers, open/close garage door, etc. I assume I could use the zone outputs (or OUT) to drive a relay. Correct? 

2

From my understanding, the zones act like a powered switch or outlet.  It's always powered by 5 V.  You are correct on the way it reads sensors by detecting when the line is open due to the sensor tripping and it being normally closed.  When you switch the zone to be output, the zones become naturally open and will close the switch when it activates, supplying the line with 5 V.


Motion sensors need constant 12 V for it to be working.  There should be 4 wires; red, black, green, and white.  The red goes to 12 V, the black goes to ground, the green goes to one of the zone inputs, and the white goes to common.  The 12 V is separate from the zones and is only on the alarm board and not the add-on board.


And yes you can use the zone outputs to drive the relays since the zones can output 5 V except zone 6.  The add-on board also has its own 5 V output that you can use.

3

I just took another look at the Konnected board.  The 12 V output is labeled AUX so the red wire goes to AUX + and the black wire goes to AUX -.  The white wire doesn't go to common but one of the ground zones.  Please view Nate's video with rewiring an alarm panel to see how it works.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIv5VdVrkys

4

The existing documentation and videos are great (really) for those transitioning from a traditional wired alarm system that is wired in typical fashion. But if that use case varies (for example, in my case I am converting a home automation system, not just alarm), or someone finds some atypical wiring, just a little more documentation is needed on the specifications on the connections. 

 

In my case, the system I am replacing has a bank of voltage inputs which can accept 4-24V AC/DC to which my sensors are connected. For this reason, 3-conductor wiring was used for sensors that required power. Motion is indicated by presence/absence of +12V on the third wire. No fourth wire needed.


I assumed (very incorrectly based on the smoke) that a zone configured for input could accept +12V DC. My conclusion is that you cannot use voltage input, only dry switched input. This is not altogether terrible though because I don't need to rewire the house, but instead have a bank of 12V DC relays that open and close the circuit that is connected to a zone. Right?

 

What would certainly have helped me and anyone encountering atypical scenarios is just a list of connections on the two boards and what they expect or provide. I'll provide an example of what I mean. Please note for those reading this that you should NOT assume this is correct and it is certainly not complete! I am just providing a possible template and my best guess.

 

AUX+ provides +12V DC out always on. Max load xxxx.

AUX- provides -12V DC out always on. Max load xxxx.

SIREN provides +12V DC when Siren activated

 

When configured for output

 

Zone # provides +5V DC if and only if zone is turned on

G provides -5V DC

 

When configured for input

 

Zone # and G are switch inputs that sense closed or open circuit. Polarity doesn't matter. Zone # provides +5V DC always. Circuit must NOT have another power source.


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Also adding a crude picture of what I now believe to be the case:

image


5

The existing documentation and videos are great (really) for those transitioning from a traditional wired alarm system that is wired in typical fashion. But if that use case varies (for example, in my case I am converting a home automation system), or someone finds some atypical wiring, just a little more documentation is needed on the specifications on the connections. 

 

In my case, the system I am replacing has a bank of voltage inputs which can accept 4-24V AC/DC to which most of my sensors are connected. For this reason, 3-conductor wiring was used for sensors that required power. Motion is indicated by lack of +12V on the third wire. I assumed (I think very incorrectly based on the smoke) that a zone configured for input could accept +12V DC. My conclusion is that you cannot use voltage input, only switched input. This is not altogether terrible though because I don't need to rewire the house, but instead have a bank of 12V DC relays that open and close the circuit that is connected to a zone. Right?

 

What would certainly have helped me and anyone encountering atypical scenarios is just a list of connections on the two boards and what they expect or provide. I'll provide an example of what I mean. Please note for those reading this that you should NOT assume this is correct and it is certainly not complete! I am just providing an example and my best guess.

 

AUX+ provides +12V DC out always on. Max load xxxx.

AUX- provides -12V DC out always on. Max load xxxx.

SIREN provides +12V DC when Siren activated

 

When configured for output

 

Zone # provides +5V DC when zone is turned on

G provides -5V DC when zone is turned on

 

When configured for input

 

Zone # and G are switch inputs that sense closed or open circuit. Zone # provides +5V DC always. Circuit must not have another power source.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


6

Just to illustrate what I *think* I have figured out about using a zone for input. Again, this crude drawing should not be construed as correct! I am just posting my conjecture.

image

7

Yes, Konnected zones can not take input voltage because between Zone # and G, there is 5 V. 


Are you sure you have voltage inputs?  It would help if you could name the brand or system you are rewiring so it could clarify how to wire it.


And there should be another wire for your motion sensor.  There can not be a wire with 12 V without another wire to be ground or 0.  There has to be a potential difference.  Like AUX supplies 12 V when "+" is 12 V and "-" is ground or 0.  I'm not really understanding your usage of +12 V and - 12 V.


I also do not understand your drawing.  Could you label what the box on the left is suppose to be?

8

The box on the left in the crude drawings represent a sensor. What I mean to convey is whether or not the output is electrically isolated from the input power that powers the sensor. In the typical case of the motion sensor as you are thinking about it, you have two wires powering the sensor, and then two more wires connected to a relay in the sensor that opens/closes with change of state, making four total.

 

In contrast, my sensors have only 3-conductor wire run to them: +12V and GND to power it, and then a third wire which returns +12V when there is no motion. Within the sensor, the +12V is simply jumpered to one side of the relay, and that third wire to the other. Now why would I do it that way (25 years ago)? Because I could. My home automation system had a bank of opto-isolated inputs that accept 4-24v ac/dc or dry contacts. Jumpers selected voltage input or switch logic input. There is no need for a fourth wire since the inputs can accommodate +12V voltage input.

 

The bottom line of this thread is the clarification that Konnected's zones used as input are switch logic dry contact only, and cannot accept voltage. If a legacy sensor returns voltage input, the workaround is to use that voltage to drive a relay appropriate to its voltage which opens and closes a loop that connects to a Konnected zone.

9

The typical motion sensor has two wires to power the sensor and two wires coming out of the sensor but the sensor is used as an open/close switch, not a relay.  A relay has it's own voltage source while a switch only is an open or close wire. I think you were trying to explain this with your first drawing with "This is OK" which is correct.


Your motion sensors that you have from your explanation are acting like relays where it open/closes based on detection and then drives out the 12 V.  This will make ground your 4th wire.


Your second drawing is correct in that it won't work because you can't wire a relay into the Konnected zones because it will input 12 V.


Your third drawing will not work either because you are just adding another relay after the sensor that acts like a relay to the Konnected zones and it is still inputting 12 V.


10

I apologize.  You are correct.  I mind blanked on how relays work.  Your drawings are correct and it should work with the Konnected zones if you use a relay.

11

May be a dumb question here but i am a newbie.. I have the interface panel.. My alarm panel is Concord 4 and it doesn't have aux+ and aux - . It has 12v and Grnd. i am assuming that I am connecting the panel to 12 and Grnd? Here is the snap 

image